Posts by Indian Larry

12

October 1, 1926 WT on the Prophetic Seven Times of the Gentiles

by JakeM2012 in

jw
friends

i know that this has been discussed previously about the 607 b.c.e and the 586 b.c.e.

debate.

but i found it interesting in the october 1, 1926 wt the quotes under the subheading:.

Indian Larry

Love to see a scan if anyone has one.

7

Biblical precedence for opposing viewpoints within the Congregation

by Momma-Tossed-Me in

often the wtbts uses the gathering of older men in jerusalem as support for the organizational structure used today.

this essay will examine the validity of that claim by way of logic and reason.. .

logically an argument could be formulated that this meeting was not a regularly scheduled or organized group that held weekly or monthly meetings to discuss things related to the early christian congregation but that is a thesis to be explored on another day.. .

Indian Larry

Excellent. Thank you very much for the research and time you put into this. I will be putting it to use.

322

My son was murdered today

by truman in

i have been on this site daily, almost from its beginning, since i left the jws in 2001, but i have been more of a reader than a poster, as you can see from my post count.

i know few here know me, although i know many of you through reading your posts.

maybe it is not right to ask for support, when i generally stay quietly in the background of this forum, but i want only to speak a human misery of the deepest kind.

Indian Larry

You have my deepest sympathy. As parents we are never meant to outlive our children. My heart goes out to you!

79

What does your profile name say about you?

by usualusername in

jw
friends

i use usualusername as i am not creative enough to think of anything sexier.... .

what significance is there behind your profile name?.

.

Indian Larry

I chose Indian Larry as a screen name because I like the attitude he had about questioning everything. I also like his signature "question mark" logo. Here are some excerpts from the Wikipedia page on Indian Larry:

Having experienced and overcome many extreme tests in life, Indian Larry adopted the question mark as his personal symbol. Larry "had a lot going on in his head", and was by nature analytical, and a deep thinker.

A well-known anecdote about Indian Larry is that as a kid he attempted to build a bomb in his parent's basement in order to blow up the Catholic school;Instead, an explosion occurred at the DeSmedt home, and Larry lost the small finger on his left hand.

9

Ray Franz book's available in audio format! Crisis of Consciencs / Christian Freedom

by Indian Larry in

everybody may already know this but i just happened to discover that crisis of conscience and in search of christian freedom are now available as audio books.

they are not legal copies as commentary press did not make a audio version, however someone took the time to read every page of both books into a good mike.

the sound quality is good and they are organized well for a iphone or ipod.

Indian Larry

Everybody may already know this but I just happened to discover that Crisis of Conscience and In Search of Christian Freedom are now available as audio books. They are NOT legal copies as Commentary Press did not make a audio version, however someone took the time to read every page of both books into a good mike. The sound quality is good and they are organized well for a iPhone or iPod. I have both books already (ordered off of Amazon - Free Minds I think). I would have been more than glad to pay for the audio version but I could not find one for sale.

So that being said you have to decide if it will cause a crisis for your conscience to download it for free from Piratebay dot SE.

You will need a bit torrent program. It will download as .mp3 files. They will import into iTunes perfectly. The speaker has a pleasant voice and it is really nice to be able to listen while driving.

I would recommend making a donation to Commentary Press or even better order extra copies to give away (or leave in your Dr.s Office), that way Ray''s wife can still earn for his valueable insitghts. To me these two books are BOTH fantastic, although I like In Search of Christian Freedom the best.

Please don't flame me for recommending Pirate Bay. If there is any other place to get them please let me know.

6

More Self Therapy

by Indian Larry in

jw
friends

dont push me under.

there is nothing wrong with that.. i am concerned about my standing with god.. i am concerned about how i will answer on judgement day.. i try to be a good father.. i try to be a good son.. i try to be a good husband.. is that crazy?.

yes, i have doubts.. the bible tells us to verify the truth.. we are encouraged to test things we are told.

Indian Larry

re. Scotoma.

I do believe that we were created. I have looked with (at least what I feel) is an open mind at evolution and I still feel there had to be intelligent design in the beginning. How do I KNOW the Bible is the truth? I guess I don't know to the point I could prove it in a court of law. I do know there are some contradictions in the Bible, some things in the Bible I don't believe 100%. For instance I do believe there was a flood, however I do have doubts that it was a world wide flood. I believe it was a localized flood, and I believe that can be shown in the scriptures. I think I had it figured one time the water would have had to fall at over 5' per hour.

A site that covers some of the specifics of this and how you can still believe in the bible in the face of some of the valid questions science raises is called:

godandscience dot org

Either way I am NOT looking to start a Evolution vs. Creation battle. That battle has gone on for over 100 years and will go on 100 more. Each side will think the other does not understand. What came first the chicken or the egg? I feel it was the chicken. I do believe in evolution as far a changes within a species but I still think each basic species had a beginning. If you do not believe the bible is the truth, that is your choice and I respect that. I did go that way for awhile. It has been 10 years since I mentally dropped out and over 3 since I stopped attending meetings. For a while I did doubt everything even God and the Bible.

It could be how I was raised, but to me I find more meaning in my life believing in creation. Is that faith or gullibility? I would like to think it is faith. If I am wrong, i am wrong. So what? That just means I led a life that had meaning to me, and when I die I will just be dead. To me that is better to have a hope for the future and a feeling of meaning in life than to simply feel like I am another link in an evolutionary chain. To me to live as, for instance Richard Dawkins would be an empty life.

Anyhow. That's all on that. I have enough problems trying to get my family out of the BORG without bringing any other variables into the mix.

Bottom line is I do feel that we were created. Am I right or wrong? I don't know, but I know it feels right to me.

6

More Self Therapy

by Indian Larry in

jw
friends

dont push me under.

there is nothing wrong with that.. i am concerned about my standing with god.. i am concerned about how i will answer on judgement day.. i try to be a good father.. i try to be a good son.. i try to be a good husband.. is that crazy?.

yes, i have doubts.. the bible tells us to verify the truth.. we are encouraged to test things we are told.

Indian Larry

@Pams Girl – That was kind of directed to my wife (who ironically will never read this). Yesterday I asked her if she would shun me if I came "out", she would not answer. This really really stinks because we have been married 25 years and it has been a good marriage. Seems like everything is falling apart.

6

More Self Therapy

by Indian Larry in

jw
friends

dont push me under.

there is nothing wrong with that.. i am concerned about my standing with god.. i am concerned about how i will answer on judgement day.. i try to be a good father.. i try to be a good son.. i try to be a good husband.. is that crazy?.

yes, i have doubts.. the bible tells us to verify the truth.. we are encouraged to test things we are told.

Indian Larry

Don’t Push Me Under

You know what?

I am not crazy.

I have a conscience.

So what. There is nothing wrong with that.

I am concerned about my standing with God.

I am concerned about how I will answer on judgement day.

I try to be a good father.

I try to be a good son.

I try to be a good husband.

Is that crazy?

Yes, I have doubts.

The bible tells us to verify the truth.

We are encouraged to test things we are told

I did. I checked what I was taught.

Things don’t add up.

Is my math wrong? Why won’t anyone check my homework?

Others refuse to look, they are afraid of what they will see.

Like a flock of storks with heads in the sand.

Ignoring problems does not make them go away.

Which is truth? How do we tell?

It is simple. The bible should be the yardstick.

If man disagrees with God. Pick your side.

I choose God.

If that means I am crazy. So be it.

If that means I am to be shunned. Then shun me.

If I am wrong, please pray for me.

If I am wrong, show me my error.

I feel like I am drowning.

I am looking up at the dock.

Pleading for a life ring, a rope a hand anything.

No one wants to help.

Tsk tsk, they whisper. “he shouldn’t have got near the water”

“Oh yes that’s too bad”

“Look! he keeps popping up to the top.” –says one

“Maybe he can make it on his own” – chimes in someone else

I know I am not getting wet, that’s for sure. – everyone agrees

“I warned him!” –says another

Sit on the dock.

Wait for help to arrive.

Have a picnic.

Check the weather report.

But, if you can’t help me.

Please, don’t push me under.

13

Sometimes writing to myself is therapy. I thought I would share

by Indian Larry in

jw
friends

growing up.

taught that the whole world will end any time.

everyone in the town i live in will die.

Indian Larry

@Ding – Thanks for the PM and the offer. I may take you up on that one day.

@3rdgen – My wife listens to me sometimes, but no matter what I say the F&DS is still the F&DS to her. I am having a hard time getting past that. She does admit their stance on blood fractions had no biblical basis. And just yesterday she was saying that she felt guilty because she felt she should be in service. I managed to read her most of the Chapter in Raymond Franz' book In Search of Christian Freedom on reporting time. I guess that went okay. Her eyes were all puffy by the time we were through but at least it was not a major fight.

She is a 2nd generation witness who is very very close to here family. Her mom is an active witness her dad is not baptized (he smokes) but he does go the every Sunday meeting and has for years. She is super super close to her sister who is married to a brother from a very large all witness family. His family has some members in Bethel some involved with Circuit Assemblies etc. It would be very hard for her sister to get out. They have no clue how I feel.

Most of my family and friends know the local elders made a pretty big obvious mistake that involved myself. Too long of a story to go into, but everyone knows they were wrong, no question about that. I was a MS and stepped down two other elders left the congregation. The rest just think I am not there because of the problem with the local congregation. Actually I don't really care about that at all. People make mistakes, I understand that, no one is perfect.

It is different however when you claim to be God' sole channel of communication and rigidly enforce shunning on anyone who does not agree with you.

Anyway, I am running on. Bottom line is I am 3 years into a pretty successful fade, but I am making no real progress with my wife. I know I have it better than many on this board but to me it is all such a mess.

By the way, I too am a 3rd ten witness. My parents are very elderly and have some medical problems, they love me and I love them. I HATE to disappoint them, but I can't just go through the motions for them either. Sometimes I talk with my father about things, he shuts down and gets very very angry.

@for everyone else. - Thank you for your thoughts, I really do appreciate the opportunity to vent a little. : )

13

Sometimes writing to myself is therapy. I thought I would share

by Indian Larry in

jw
friends

growing up.

taught that the whole world will end any time.

everyone in the town i live in will die.

Indian Larry

GROWING UP

Taught that the whole world will end any time

Everyone in the town I live in will die

Everyone I go to school with will die

They will all be bird food.

Maybe, if I am a good boy I may get the chance to see this happen.

Maybe, if I am a good boy I can help clean up their dead bodies.

Maybe, if I am a good boy I will see my Uncle again.

Maybe, if I am a good boy I will see my grandfather.

But I don’t feel like a good boy.

I don’t feel worthy.

I am afraid that I won’t make it.

I am afraid that I will.

MARRIAGE

Got lucky. Best wife anywhere.

Love. Joy. Happiness.

Responsibility.

Struggle to be spiritual head of house

Struggle to earn a living.

Something is missing.

Children? Do not have children.

The whole world will end any time.

Don’t bring children into this system.

Years pass. Ache for child. Empty inside.

FATHERHOOD

Rebel. Have a child.

Light, love, joy!

Gift from Jehovah.

Oppressive weight. More responsibility.

Worry for her. Scared for the future.

Must train her right.

Study. Study. Study.

Pray. Pray. Pray.

Make progress in congregation.

Hope. Maybe I do have a chance!

TRUTH ABOUT THE TRUTH

Discover organization is deceptive

Deceptive about joining the UN

Deceptive about false prophecy

Deceptive about what they predicted for 1914

Deceptive about blood transfusions

Deceptive about history

Heart broken. Disillusioned. Hurt. Confused.

What else are they deceptive about?

How can this be? God does not lie.

They speak for God right?

What is the truth?

Afraid to know. Stick my head in the sand.

Sweep it under the rug. Do not look. Do not ask.

Anger. Confusion. Paralyzing fear.

Discordance. Stress. Swirling contradictions.

Afraid to put it out of my mind.

Afraid not to.

ALL ALONE IN MY HEAD

No one I can talk to.

No one to answer these questions.

No one that understands.

If I ask for answers no one can help

If I share what I know I will be branded

Branded by all my friends

Branded by my family

Branded by my wife and daughter

Ostracized. Shunned. Looked down on.

By everyone I know and care about.

Demonized for sharing the truth.

I must keep quiet.

TIME IS NO FRIEND

Time gnaws at my conscience.

Do I warn my wife?

Is my daughter on the same path?

What will happen to her faith when she finds out.

She will find out.

Will she lose faith in Jehovah?

Will she lose faith in the bible?

I almost did, to regain it is a fight.

I fight I don’t wish on anyone.

Is ignorance bliss?

MEANWHILE

In the meantime

Work. Work. Work.

Few friends.

No one to open up to.

Kidneys hurt. Fat.

Getting older. Health does not seem well.

Hope still glimmers like a ember in a old fire.

Fan it. Read the Bible.

Study. Study. Study.

Research. Research. Research.

It flickers. Wavers. Will it burn?

IS IT TOO LATE?

What about the promise? Have I lost my chance?

The chance to live forever.

What do I do?

God wants us to serve him in truth.

I know he is forgiving.

I know he cares.

I do not know what to do.

Confusion, discord, depression.

TORN APART

I am being torn apart.

Pulled one way by all the people I know and love.

Pulled the other way by my conscience.

What do I do?

I don’t know.